Tat,
I wanted to know how you think about jihad because that concept is unique to Islam. There is no equivalent among followers of Jesus and I really don’t think there is among Jews though in those days there were conquests and they, the Jews were conquered many times in their history.
You asked me to read the Qur’an. I have already read much of the Qur’an. I have been reading it for the last two years. I have about 4 copies of it in different translations right here. As I said in my Authenticity of the Bible for Muslims series, it reads very differently from the Greek and Hebrew scriptures.
There are many great admonitions in there. The call to holiness is fantastic. Muslims live clean and upright and are to be commended for that. Yet, I am baffled by the seeming contorted concept of sin;in that, it is not a sin if only committed in the heart or if not discovered by an authority as sin.
True Christians have a very explicit understanding of sin. Sins are both acts and thoughts. but that is a subject for another day.
I don’t think you received a good understanding of the person of Jesus. He is wonderful, He is Savior, He is Lord and deserves worship because, unlike the claims of so many today, he is the God-Man. He is not just humanity. He took on flesh but existed eternally with the Father and Spirit. Also He is the bestower of grace with a capital G. One cannot understand the grace of God apart from Him.
The journey with Jesus starts at His cross. He did go there–well documented–biblical and secular. And as John Yoder says, “…at the cross is the man who loves his enemies, the man whose righteousness is greater than that of the Pharisees, who being rich became poor, who gives his robe to those who took his cloak, who prays for those who despitefully use him.” He as a suffering servant was an example for all of humanity whether considered a prophet or not, Ah, but he is so much more.
In addition to the Hebrew and Greek, I love Biblical archaeology. Did you know that no archaeological discovery has ever brought into question any history of civilizations in the Bible?
I took on the study of Biblical archaeology to show to myself that the writing of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures are accurate. The have proved themselves over and over. I’ve also pursued the historical Jesus and researched and evaluated His claims. I would not say that I am through with any of these because archaeological discoveries are being made every day. But, based on what I have studied thus far, I have found the Bible(Hebrew and Greek) to be absolutely reliable. Jesus has proven Himself over and over, in my own life, my wife’s life and in hundreds of people around me.
I have been a follower of Jesus a long time but Jay, a new friend of mine, has not. He came to our church with his fiance. He told me that when he first came he was floored–”these people are all fake, they can’t be as happy as they appear or claim to be.” Today, Jay follows Jesus, has real joy, and he understands what all these people around him understood before.
So, just like Jay, a person must submist to and come to know Jesus as the Lord God and the Savior from sin. It is impossible to know the joy that He gives without knowing him in this way. AND, how to know Him is described in detail in the New Testament.
Following Jesus is liberating and freeing. There is no law to follow, there is only grace from Him which then gives the motivation to willingly obey Him. Law is easy, grace is difficult. Law is binging, while grace is liberating. It is not an easy life but it has been and will continue to be so rewarding. I don’t assume that other people have an unrewarding or unfulfilling life–no. But, since I worship, serve and submit to The God, I feel my life is the best one I could have been given or ever lived. Jesus said that He is the giver of life. He has certainly given richly to me and I am not disappointed.
I hope you can say something similar about your submission to Allah.
Have a great day!
From Tat: (this dialogue occurred in another context obviously)
Jihad: +sigh+ again i told you about Jihad, its a Arabic word meaning “to struggle” or “to strive” the best way to describe it is “to do good when doing wrong is easier and more socially acceptable” you would call it “resisting sin” the prophet(saw) said, “the best jihad is to say a word of truth to an unjust ruler” warfare has in part something to do with jihad, i already talk about the rules Muslims have to fallow in war so i will not go over them again, a war jihad can only happen when the people are oppressed, so doing the right thing would be to fight the oppressor, even thou fighting would be harder and not acceptable by the oppressive society, ie. government troops and loyalist will try to kill you, your family and destroy your property if you fight them.
Sin in Islam: Sin in is Islam is basically same in all faiths, we will all have to pay for what we do, just like the bible says, the father dose not inherit the sins of the son nor dose the son inherit the sins of the father, the rigorousness of the righteous is with the righteous and the wickedness of the wicked is with the wicked. god tells us to repent to him alone for our sins and to make every effort to stay away from them. Allah(swt) also say, that if he puts a Vail over our sins, meaning we do something wrong but no one knows it, that we sould not tell anyone about it, but to repent to god alone.
history of the cross: you said the history of the cross is well documented in history, BUT outside the bible, there is only 2 people that talk about it, a roman and a Jew, and both were either not born yet or were just babies at the time of it. the so called “history” of the crucifixion is based on what the bible says.
you said “I took on the study of Biblical archaeology to show to myself that the writing of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures are accurate.” that’s a problem, when you go into something with predisposition you will only look for and find what proves what you want, you understand what i mean? if you take a true scholarly attitude towards your “study” you would set aside you ideas at the beginning and not go into your “studies” with a idea already, you would go in with no idea and thought the studies you would develop one. you said the bible has proven it self over and over again, what do you have to say about all the errors and contradictions in the bible. if the bible is the word of god then there would be no mistakes, some say it is the “inspired” word of god, but again if it was inspired by god to the numerous writers of the bible would it not be the same?
you worship Jesus, but Jesus worshiped god, he said worship my lord and your lord, he prayed to god alone, he said to “keep the laws/commandments” he said he “did not come to destroy the laws”
you say you fallow Jesus, do you eat pork? well Jesus did not even touch the stuff, how about circumcision? Jesus was circumcised. Jesus also worshiped on the sabbath (since you said you study the Hebrew bible i assume you know the Hebrew language so i will not go into what the sabbath is) do you worship on the sabbath? Jesus did his daily prays 3 time a day. how about you?
its nice you found “peace” but i got to ask, on the day of judgment when Jesus denies you what then will you do?
Jesus says in your bible “Not everyone who keeps saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn’t we?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!’”
Jesus says only way to heaven is to do the will of god, Jesus did not say do my will or do the will of the son, but he said the will of the father in heaven meaning god. he continues that many people will call him “lord” and use his name (such as in pray “in Jesus name we pray”) and not the name of god. then Jesus say he will deny those people, the people who used his name in worship and not god, and he will cast them out and say they were not his people but people who do an evil thing, worshiping Jesus and not god alone. are you going to be ready for this?
Tat,
I received your message. thanks.
I said in my last message: “I hope you can say something similar about your submission to Allah.”
What I was hoping for so something from the heart or soul from you.
I said that I had done study in archaeology and I need to do lots more. I would like to tackle form criticism some day. this is a study of all the bases for interpretation, discerning who wrote the books, comparative analysis of teaching by one writer to another, etc.
Regarding “jihad: +sign+ again” Actually if I had a unique topic in my holy book (I have several myself) i would be proud to discuss its uniqueness with an unbeliever. You appear to be “offended” “put off”, I don’t know. I really don’t understand why, if this is a principle or concept from Allah, you should be good with it.
Now, since you appear to be a person who loves data and the facts and since you gave me a charge of doing research without predisposition or hypothesis about what facts may be discovered. I need to ask you how you did that to satisfy yourself about the truth of Allah. That is, since you were exposed to Jesus, the New Testament, the Old Testament, and Qur’an, and you consider some texts to contain errors and others not to contain errors–what guiding principles and sources did you use to analyze either one, New Testament, Qur’an, Torah, Zabur, to determine whether each contained truth or error? The flip side of that is how do you know error when you see it in sacred scripture?
Also since you have done your research without presupposition about the truth and since the Qur’an, by naming these, assumes their historicity; what principles and sources did you use to verify the historicity of Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Dhu’l-Qarneyn or Zul-Qarnain? And who is Zul-Qarnain in your best interpretation?
I am sure you have researched these because they are all given in the Qur’an along with other bible persons. Since the bible contains errors according to you, but Muhammad brought stories ( and I assume historical facts also) about these prophets/persons into the Qur’an, how did you settle the issue regarding what the Qur’an says about these to be accurate? By that I mean the same as before: what principles and sources did you use to analyze to come to the conclusion that these persons were historical. You may have additional reason to believe the Qur’an is accurate.
Moving on to Jesus, the central person, yes I do worship him. You said that He said worship the Father, he did, you are right in that. If you believe that He said “worship the Father,” then you must also believe that the God of the New Testament has a relationship with a child if He is a Father.
Jesus did say worship the Father AND, Worship of Jesus as God (in His presence) is recorded in the Greek New Testament. This is the reason followers of Jesus also worship other personages of the Godhead.
Why is it so hard to believe in a God coming down? He appeared in Genesis 18 and stayed for several days. He appeared in other parts of the Hebrew recordings too. Do you believe that Muhammad made a trip to heaven–a man in a sinful, wretched state? An awesome, holy God brings him (Muhammad) into his presence? Why is it so difficult to believe that God did what He did through Jesus in the New Testament?
“Sin in Islam: Sin in is Islam is basically same in all faiths, we will all have to pay for what we do,”
Yes, this is true in all faiths except for followers of Jesus–Jesus did the paying on our behalf.
Please read II Corinthians 5: 18,19
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.
But no follower of Jesus is off the hook, so to speak. His motivation is completely changed and will serve God forever more. How do I know that? II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
Followers of Jesus are new creatures–created to do new and good deeds.
“its nice you found “peace” but i got to ask, on the day of judgment when Jesus denies you what then will you do?
Jesus says in your bible “Not everyone who keeps saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn’t we?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!’”
”
I don’t go before Jesus with my works or deeds. I go before Jesus with HIS promise. I will not go to heaven based on my merit–no man or woman will. I go solely on His merit. If he did not gain eternal life for me, I am lost and have no hope.
Please read I John 5
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
I have personally “asked Him” to forgive my sins and accepted Him by faith. If I have any confidence before God, it is because of Jesus work on earth — nothing depends on me. My standing before God is solely dependent on Jesus’ blood covering my sins. I cannot pay for my sins–the price is too great–that is explicitly stated in the Qur’an.
Have a wonderful day!
From Tat: (this dialogue occurred in another context obviously)
Nothing. Tat did not respond to my last correspondence.
Hello
fine
thank you for your comment on my blog and your precisation
I’m discovering yours as well..I’ll have to go to all your posts…seems we havethe same interests
I “rss-ed” you
God bless you
echnaton